Monday, December 17, 2012

Replies To smrstrauss's Comments Concerning Barack Hussein Obama's Presidential Eligibility

smrstrauss said... "In fact, it must have been damn irritating to have to get another birth certificate from Hawaii, when you have already shown one, and when the officials in Hawaii of BOTH parties confirmed the facts on it, and the Index Data and the birth notices in the newspapers, etc."

It might have been damn irritating. So what? You and I both know that the presidency comes with a bundle of perks--24 hour security, 24 hour food service, two jets, and a large paid staff for starters--so as to insure that the president is never bogged down in minutia. That is how it should be.

With a wave of the hand, the president can secure a long form birth certificate and ultimately he would wave his hand and a staff member would produce said document. There are those of us who still respect the office of the presidency and we ask the same of any administration. I's should be dotted and t's should be crossed. It is not asking too much for the president to wave his imperial hand and produce a requested document.

But this president is just too self-important for such things. He crossed his adolescent arms in an act of defiance and refused to budge until Donald Trump goaded him to act. You might see this behavior as admirable but I see it as a character flaw.
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"If YOU really believe that Obama's mother traveled tens of thousands of miles to Kenya (where Yellow Fever was endemic at the time and which had lousy hospitals) late in pregnancy, and a cost of tens of thousands of dollars in 2012 terms, you are just as nutty as Orly."

First of all, I am every bit as nutty as Orly but I don't have an agent. And here I will sacrifice some of my nut cred and say that I agree with you that Stanley Dunham would not have traveled to Kenya in the late stages of pregnancy for the reasons you list but for other reasons as well. Given what we know about human nature I doubt if Brack Obama Senior's new model wife would have been warmly greeted by his family. Her arrival would probably not be a Kumbaya moment.

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"Should the US Congress investigate every time a literary agent makes an obvious mistake?"

No. But if it was a mistake, it was clearly a mistake made with and Barack Obama's approval.
From The UK Telegraph http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100158834/obama-used-to-be-a-kenyan/

Today, the President has satisfied all right-minded folk that he was in fact born in Hawaii. Breitbart.com itself has always rejected the absurd cult of birtherism. In fact, this story is really the opposite of birtherism – Breitbart infers that in the past Obama encouraged people to think that he was born abroad in order to establish an identity as an authentic, exotic voice in the debate on racial politics.

Obama’s old literary agent has issued a terse statement to the effect that the wording was all her fault and she never consulted her client. If that’s true, she’s a bad agent. A different agent, quoted by Breitbart.com, disagrees. He told the website “that while ‘almost nobody’ wrote his or her own biography, the non-athletes in the booklet, whom ‘the agents deal[t] with on a daily basis,’ were ‘probably’ approached to approve the text as presented.”

If we accept that Obama didn’t provide the biography, it would seem highly unlikely that he didn’t get a chance to vet it. Accepting that he didn’t do that either, it’s incredibly strange that the literary agent approached by Breitbart.com does not remember Obama calling the agency to register a complaint and make a correction. My mother spent a lot of her childhood in Grenada. If my literary agent told people I was born in the Caribbean, I’d at least pick up the phone to set the record straight.

The young Barack Obama was given to flights of exotica and he was unusually image-conscious. He wanted to impress people with his worldliness and what better way to do so than to fabricate a story that he was born in Kenya. Given the revelations by David Maraniss that there were over three dozen factual inaccuracies (and these were not trivial inaccuracies) in "Dreams From My Father" and the ongoing liberties the senator/candidate/president takes with any matter of substance, it further establishes that our president is a pathological liar.

But we as a people have decided that truth is not important and I do not advocate that Congress investigate the president's eligibility on matters of habitual dishonesty. Of course, Indonesian citizenship is another matter altogether. Comment: I bet if Sarah Palin had told her literary agent that she was born in Canada, the major news outlets would NOT have killed the story.

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"Re forged birth certificate. I agree with you that the claims of the birth certificate being forged come from Obama's enemies and are simply made up by them. Among the birther "experts" are Paul Irey, who showed his attitude towards Obama by continuing to insist that Obama never attended Columbia College, despite Columbia University saying that he did, and that he graduated, and Doug Vogt, who showed his rationality by claiming to have discovered the original altar of Abraham. Want to see his site?

There are many real experts who say that there is nothing wrong with Obama's birth certificate, including John Woodman, who happens to be a member of the Tea Party and who dislikes Obama and Obama's policies, but shows that the birther "experts" are wrong. They also include Ivan Zatkovich, who was hired by WND to examine the image of Obama's birth certificate, and when he submitted his report that there was nothing wrong with Obama's birth certificate, WND simply did not publish it."

I am sorry to say that I am ignorant of most things birth certificate related. I do not know Irey or Vogt or Woodman. At some point I will ask WND if they killed a dissenting report from Ivan Zatkovich and I will report the correspondence here.
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"A question for you? Do people always obey the law?"

  I am sorry to say that I do. That is more a sad testimonial to age than to virtue or citizenship.

"If it ever got to court, the court might ask the Indonesian Embassy to send someone to testify, and what would that person say? She or he would say: "Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia." And that would settle it."

Then let us settle it.

"But you do not have to wait for a court to do that, you can call yourself, ask for the Press Officer."

Why not just call Jay Carney?
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Re: "Is a minor automatically adopted by one's stepfather under Indonesian law? Doesn't a child have to be an Indonesian citizen to attend Indonesian schools?" "The answer is NO and again NO (that claim was made up by birthers), but you can check for yourself. Once again, the Indonesian Embassy knows all about such things. They even have a legal expert on their staff."

I would prefer that someone versed in law make such inquiries.
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"We know that Obama used his step-father's name. There is NO evidence that he was adopted, and there would be evidence if he were. There is no evidence that he changed his name legally, and there would be evidence if he did. So, he just used the name."

I appreciate your learned opinion on this but I do believe these matters deserve further scrutiny.

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These are not sour grapes, nor is this a vendetta and despite what Chris Matthews might tell you, this plea for Congressional investigation is not racially motivated. This is a matter of national security. David Petraeus was terminated (or asked to resign) as Director of CIA. The explanation given was that he had a mistress and this constituted a security risk (even though all significant parties knew of his mistress at the time of his confirmation.)

If the president is hiding a potentially scandalous secret does that not make the Commander-In-Chief a security risk? Is he not vulnerable to blackmail? Is he not beholden to whomever might share in knowledge of said secret?

Barack Obama might have stonewalled in the past to conceal politically disatrous but not necessarily disqualifying material. But he is now in his second term and he has said himself that he will never again seek political office. So if he listed his place of birth as Kenya on a college application or his citizenship as Indonesian, or if he neglected to take an economics course or if he wrote anti-American theses, or if he reveals a failing grade in basic math, now is the time to come clean. Those are not impeachable offenses and his loyalists will maintain their loyalty NO MATTER WHAT! They probably won't bother to examine such matters.

But there is also the distinct possibility that Barack Obama is concealing an eligibility issue. This is not mere speculation. The Indonesian Citizenship issue has never been investigated. If Congress does not act, who will?

11 comments:

smrstrauss said...

I do not post for you but for any rational people who may be visiting this site.

Obama did not have to show his long form birth certificate, his short form birth certificate is the OFFICIAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE OF HAWAII, and that is what he posted.

It, plus the confirmation of the officials of BOTH parties in Hawaii (including the former Republican governor of Hawaii) is sufficient to prove birth in Hawaii. However, in this case there is not only the birth certificate and the confirmations of the officials.

There is:

(1) the public Index Data file, that shows that a birth certificate was filed for Obama in 1961.

(2) The birth notices sent to the Hawaii newspapers by the DOH of Hawaii, and ONLY the DOH could send birth notices to the "Health Bureau Statistics" section of the newspaper, and the DOH only did so for births in Hawaii.

(3) The Hawaii school teacher who wrote home to her father, named Stanley, after hearing about the birth in Hawaii of a child to a woman named Stanley.

(4) The fact that Hawaii is thousands of miles from the nearest foreign country and very very few women traveled late in pregnancy in 1961, and the fact that the government of Kenya said that it investigated, and that he certainly was not born there.

smrstrauss said...

Re: "No. But if it was a mistake, it was clearly a mistake made with and Barack Obama's approval. "

Actually, no. There's no evidence that it was made with Obama's approval. That is merely speculation. He probably missed it.

BUT, so what? Say that he didn't miss it. Say that he was too lazy to correct it. Say that he didn't give a damn that the blurb was wrong. NONE of those things make him born in Kenya, and unless he was born in Kenya he was born in the USA, in Hawaii, and that makes him a Natural Born Citizen, which neither his publicist's error or the fact that he did not fix it cannot take away.

smrstrauss said...

The story that Obama registered in college as a foreign student came from an April Fool's article that was originally published on April 1, 2009.

Re: "we are saying he was not born to two American citizens, the definition of a Natural Born Citizen. His father was from Kenya, at that time a colony of the British Empire."

Answer. He definitely was not born to two American citizens. He has said so in his book, and in fact has said so repeatedly.

And, guess what, it does not matter. Why not? Because the definition of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law and refers to the PLACE of birth, not to the parents of a US-born citizen.

“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)--Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT).


“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President ..."---- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]

"Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other. “Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning."---The Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574322281597739634.html?KEYWORDS=obama+%22natural+born+citizen%22+minor+happersett)

"Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.”---Senator Lindsay Graham (December 11, 2008 letter to constituents)

And there have now been SEVEN state court rulings on Obama alone, and one federal court ruling on Obama, and one more state court ruling on McCain. All NINE of them said that the meaning of Natural Born Citizen was defined by the US Supreme Court in the Wong Kim Ark case, and that the Wong Kim Ark case said that the meaning of Natural Born came from the common law (as Meese also said), and that it referred to the place of birth (as Meese, Hatch and Graham all say), and that every child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats is a Natural Born US Citizen.

More reading on the subject:

http://www.fredthompsonsamerica.com/2012/07/31/is-rubio-eligible/

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/02/birtherism-2012

http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obamabirthbook.com/2012/04/vattel-and-natural-born-citizen/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution

http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/scotus-natural-born-citizen-a-compendium.html

smrstrauss said...

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/12/so-you-think-barack-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/

BOSurvivor said...

smrstrauss said...
"I do not post for you but for any rational people who may be visiting this site."

I care not for whom the bell tolls. However, I do appreciate your thoughtful and incisive commentary that is so uncharacteristic of the political machine that focuses its attention on the extra-low information voter. I also respect you for your loyalty, misplaced and undeserving though it might be.

smrstrauss said...
"The story that Obama registered in college as a foreign student came from an April Fool's article that was originally published on April 1, 2009."

So if we can just find an obscure April Fool's blog post that labled Operation Fast and Furious a gun running scheme that veered out of control and killed over one hundred Mexican citizens Congress can close the books on this saga?

Re the negligent literary agent: As previously mentioned I am not of the opinion that an inaccurate blurb is sufficient grounds for launching a Congressional investigation. My original comment was that "the lid will not stay on the box." In other words, Orly and Sheriff Joe get an extra fifteen minutes of fame because of Barack Obama's extreme secretivity coupled with an ongoing habit of deception and a news media that will not expose anything that might be damaging to their pampered prince. I believe that if Barack Obama is ever vetted, more inconsistencies will surface.


smrstrauss said...

Operation Fast and Furious did exist. In fact, it started during the Bush Administration. It is certainly worthwhile for Congress to investigate it. Mistakes and stupidity are normal in government, and it is part of the business of Congress to uncover them.

But it would be STUPID to investigate the nutty idea that Obama was registered as a foreign student UNLESS THERE WERE SOME EVIDENCE FOR IT. Well, there isn't any. Not even a leak or a rumor out of Occidental or Columbia. All that there is is the April Fool's article.


Orly and Sheriff Joe have already gotten their fame, and they have gone nowhere. Both, however, seem to be making money out of their activities, but not one has shown a single fact indicating that Obama was born in a foreign country or was naturalized a citizen of a foreign country.

It seems to me that the inaccurate blurb was actually responsible for the whole sequence of birther events starting with the Hillary campaign checking out whether or not Obama was born in Hawaii, but when the evidence turned up that Obama was actually born in Hawaii, the Hillary campaign stopped. The birthers didn't.

Re: " I believe that if Barack Obama is ever vetted, more inconsistencies will surface."

Answer: That is a statement of faith, not of facts. As the song goes: "I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows."

As a rational person, it is sensible to act basis of the facts not on the basis of an unproven suspicion. The facts show that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii and the meaning of Natural Born comes from the common law and refers to the place of birth. That is why the US Electoral College elected Obama in 2008 and 2012, and in 2008 and as far as we know so far in 2012 not one single elector changed her or his vote from voting for Obama to an opponent out of the crazy possibilities that Obama was not born in the USA or lost his citizenship or is not a Natural Born US Citizen.

BTW, I do not do this because I LIKE Obama. I did the same thing after Bush was elected in 2000. He really did win that election, and Obama really is a Natural Born US citizen.



BOSurvivor said...

Re: " I believe that if Barack Obama is ever vetted, more inconsistencies will surface."

Answer: That is a statement of faith, not of facts.
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It is speculation but as with race horses, football teams or blue chip stocks there is a record of past performance to reference. "Dreams From My Father" contained approximately three dozen significant fabrications. If more information about the young Obama was revealed it is a reasonable to speculate that more inconsistencies would follow.

Also, given the president's love for the limelight--some have labeled him narcissistic--it seems odd that he would not care to reveal details of his youth. The man who likes to brag about killing Osama Bin Laden and loves to tell us that his books are selling well would love to brag about his academic achievements in much the same way that Chuck Schumer still brags about his 1600 SAT scores.

Faith and speculation based on a track record are not the same thing.

smrstrauss said...

Re Fabrications in Obama's book.

Sure, but ALL biographies by politicians contain fabrications.

Besides, we are not talking about OBAMA's fabrication. We are talking about the notion that Obama was not born in Hawaii. For that to have happened, Obama's mother would have had to have left Hawaii, alone (since WND has proven with a FOI Act request that Obama's father remained in Hawaii throughout 1961) at high expense and high risk, and she certainly did not go to Kenya (which has always been the birther claim because the government of Kenya said that it checked on the "born in Kenya" story and it is not true).

And the birth certificate and the officials of BOTH parties in Hawaii (including the former Republican governor of Hawaii) must be lying, and so must the public Index Data file, and so must the birth notices sent to the Hawaii newspapers in 1961 (and ONLY the DOH of Hawaii could send notices to that section of the paper in 1961, and it only did so for births in Hawaii) and so must the teacher who wrote home to her father, named Stanley, about the birth in Hawaii of a child to a woman named Stanley.

smrstrauss said...

More than two YEARS have passed since this article was posted, and Obama is still president-----and there have not even been calls to investigate his birth certificate or his place of birth in the US Congress.

The reason, of course, is that Obama really was born in Hawaii and his birth certificate was not forged.

smrstrauss said...

More than two and a HALF years have passed since this article was posted, and Obama is still president-----and there have not even been calls to investigate his birth certificate or his place of birth in the US Congress.

The reason, of course, is that Obama really was born in Hawaii and his birth certificate was not forged.

smrstrauss said...

More than THREE and a half years have passed since this article was posted, and Obama is still president-----and there have not even been calls to investigate his birth certificate or his place of birth in the US Congress.

The reason, of course, is that Obama really was born in Hawaii and his birth certificate was not forged.